Has anyone ever read this article, and do you agree with it?
http://www.wiretapmag.org/arts/43585/
It's a long, but really good read for any hip-hop fan. For my lazy people, these two quotes pretty much sum it up:
"There's something so incredibly perverse about 30-year-old white suburbans assuming the role of Hip-Hop Fairy, dashing their microphone-shaped wands at black youth and delineating that they're not speaking from the voice of real hip-hop. Can one of you hip-hop purists please tell me, how many Sage Francis albums do you have to memorize before you get to reach "hip-hop enlightenment" and start seeing the real/fake hip-hop binary like Neo?"
"Hip-hop is deeply rooted in opposing the elitism that barred it from shelves in record stores, stages in music halls, and definitely the uppity approval of music intellectuals. In fact, in this whole scheme of things, it seems that the only thing that is truly, defiantly not hip-hop, is to claim to have the phantom certification to say what is and isn't."
(Star this Q. so the regs who aren't on right now don't miss it)|||Ok, for starters the race issue isn't a thing. It was more a throwaway comment and one that does make a certain amount of sense (and i'm saying that as a 30 year old white person - although I'm not a suburban). Anyway, that's another issue.
I both agree and disagree.
I asked a q on here ages ago about is hip hop closer in spirit now to what it was at its inception - meaning party music for people to just have a good time to, plain and simple.
I didn't say I think the quality of music was the same, or even that I thought it was a good thing - just that hip hop at it's start was party music to have fun to.
Man, I just about got crucified. People refused to see what I was saying and some of them seemed to get really pissy about it. They started using examples of "lyrical rap" which a) wasn't that lyrical and b) wasn't around at hip hop's inception given it was all about the DJ and the b-boys.
They were seriously mad at even the suggestion.
Then someone on here (it might have been Aim) asked who was more influential between Lil Jon and Biggie. The obvious answer is Lil Jon. You don't have to think he;s better than Biggie but just take a look around you - he's more influential. Again, 95% of the answerers refused to admit this was true.
Attitudes like that don;t help at all and they promote ignorance through selective memories and a refusal to accept facts.
HOWEVER:
Hip hop during the late 80s and early to mid 90s evolved (as all art should) into something really special and as far as the mainstream is concerned right now, it has begun to seriously DEvolve. This is not good for art. It is not good for hip hop. It's a part of the dumbing down of society and as such, it opens itself to ridicule.
I admit I've mellowed out a hell of a lot in my attitudes to mainstream, but the word elitist is thrown about far to easily.
When something is lacking in quality, it makes sense to seek out something of higher quality - there is no need or reason to accuse those doing that of elitism.
I find statements like those often come from a place of ignorance and pride where it's easier to call someone an elitist than it is to admit they know more than you do and educate yourself.
Saying that hip hop is deeply opposed to elitism is not looking at the whole picture.
Hip hop may be opposed to the elitism directed towards it from the outisde, but within hip hop, it's totally elitist.
You've got your NY elitists, who can battle who the best, who's got the nicest ice, most original album art, which area does what best etc etc etc. Rappers are constantly calling each other out in an elitist manner. B-boys too. It's as much a part of hip hop as the Amen break.
Genuine elitists are a massive pain in the *** - but so are people who throw around the word elitist because they can't think of a better argument against the people who don't share their views.|||For me the thing is who defines "real"? perception is everything so at the end of the day it's all how one interprets real/fake, it's all up to one's style and tastes, I may not be a fan of SB but at the end of the day he makes a form of hiphop music, period...it's as real as anything else in it's own context for me it's just not the type of hiphop I'm into...to each his own, right...?|||All i got from this is a guy saying, "I obviously don't understand you, so don't judge me and those I like, because I can name drop weirdos that fit in your catalog, too"... not as interesting as i thought it was gonna be.
people who make a division of real and fake hip hop %26gt;%26gt;%26gt;%26gt;
People who complain about people who make a division of real and fake hip hop
I'm just sayin|||"Like all other art forms, hip-hop should be allowed the freedom and versatility to include the good (Dilla, some would argue), the bad (Soulja Boy, some would argue), and the ugly (Jermaine Dupri, everyone agrees)"
I thought that was one of the most truest things he said.
"Lick on that lollipop, suckers"
And that was so lame that I had to laugh lol|||i really think that soulja boy's music should not be considered rap music! he is a embarrassment to the REAL rappers like lil wayne, jay z, young jeezy, and t.i., if i wanted someone to make up a new nursery rhyme i would possibly ask him.|||this is stupid soujaboy isnt hip hop he's pop I thought everyone knew.and Im white,17 and ive loved hip hop since i was a kid,I sure in hell dont live in the suburbs so your little article can kiss my a*s|||EW%26gt; dude. you dont know hip hop. you dont know rap. no way, soulja boy isnt hip hop at all.
no wonder why they say hip hop is dead.|||hip-hop and soulja boy should not be in the same sentence, unless its "soulja boy is destroying hip-hop"|||Interesting read. Too bad the guy campaigning against elitists is an elitist...|||your crazy bro|||But i'm asian!|||BRILLIANT!
I've addressed the same thing.|||But Facebook said I'm 100% hip hop......|||But I'm a 30 year old white suburban.|||He has a point, but I have already learnt not to say real hip hop, it is all about musical tastes. And I'm pretty sure Wayne didn't feature on Nas' last album... (My fave rapper)|||i dont think of soulja boy when u say hip hop.|||Teehee... I see y'all are still on this...
Some things never change around here.|||My 8 year old cousin can rap better than Soulja Boy.|||even a child may be|||lol.......thats about all i can say to that
L...O....L|||ok.
here goes....
and stay with me here, cuz I tried to explain what was in my head the best way possible but idk if it came out right so I hope I don't lose y'all...
This article was just a failed attempt to bash "hip-hop heads" IMO.
That being said, I agree with what he's saying about the so called "purists" or whatever, but well, that isn't really anything new.
People who believe only underground hip-hop is "Real" hip-hop have been around for years and have been hated on for years.
The problem with the person who wrote the article is that he's placing me (and the millions of other hip-hop fans/students/critics) under the same umbrella as the "purists".
Do I hate Soulja Boy?
No.
Do I dislike his music?
Yes.
Because it's not "real"?
No.
Because its not YOUR type of hip-hop?
Yes.
that's how simple it is.
same goes for Wayne.
The problem with people like the author of the article is that just because I dislike what's popular, they automatically assume i'm a "elitist".
Who is he to make that call?
So just cuz I don't like what the "urban youth" is listening to,
that automatically means i'm a 40 year old purist who sits in a room listening to "real" hip-hop songs on vinyl?
No.
If I don't like it, I don't like it.
Now, I also agree with another thing he said.
A lot of people nowadays do try and pass a lot of judgment on what is and what isn't "real hip-hop".
Is that something wrong?
ehh maybe.
But this is the way I see it....
No, I don't rap...
and no, I haven't sold a hip-hop album that has gone platinum in a week...
no, I don't produce music that's radio-friendly...
and I probably suck at all the 4 "elements of hip-hop"...
but I've been listening to hip-hop for about 15 years now, and not just listening to it, but studying it as well.
I've listened to countless albums from the 80's,90's,and 2000's
(both "mainstream" and "underground") and have gone through many artists' discographies and lyrics inside out...
so for him to say that MY opinion on what's "real" and what's not is void because Soulja is out there making hits and i'm at home simply listening to hip-hop is idiotic.
I don't wanna sound like a snob and say I know EVERYTHING about hip-hop, but I feel I know enough to give an opinion on what's real and what's not more than a 18 year old rapper who's first intentions to even get into hip-hop were to make big money off of a declining genre, in the mainstream aspect, that's been feeding off one-hit wonders for, arguably, the last 10 years.|||the most recognized definition of "real hiphop" is based on the content of his/her music rather than how he/she looks.
all the comparison pictures and generalizing them as 30 year old white suburbans just shows how many holes this article has.
who would argue they are more hip hop than soulja boy?
sure most of us would argue we KNOW more about it, but we definitely arent MORE hip hop than him, but its not really up for debate. unless some of you have some hit singles we dont know about
stupid article is stupid.|||The whole premise of this article is more or less based on one incorrect assumption... He thinks that no person who is of color/from Urban areas bumps Underground music, and that they all listen to Soulja Boy... That's very false, I'm a 15 year old from an Urban area and you're much more likely to find Brother Ali on my iPod than Soulja Boy... Also, the fact that he tries to somehow correlate Suburbanites with "Hip-Hop elitism" and Soulja Boy's music with the hood is laughable considering the majority of Soulja Boy's fan base is made up of Suburban white girls.|||Adriel Luis thinks that he can get "street credibility" by recognizing Soulja Boy because he assumes that no one in the ghetto or in big cities listens to real hip hop and they all listen to mainstream crap. So basically he is making a wrong assumption based on a stereotype that he has in his mind. Let me put you onto something. People in the suburbs are the ones playing Soulja Boy. 16 year old white girls are the ones playing soulja boy. Not to mention that he comes from a very crappy hipster spoken word group called Illogic. So basically he is trying to establish himself as being "in touch with the hood" because he is insecure about the fact that he himself is a suburban kid who probably looked like that guy in the hyphy shirt at one point.|||Everyone is allowed to say what is real and isn't real, because they are objective terms based off of their own opinions. Its only the point where they attempt to infiltrate the minds of everyone else with their own agenda, that it becomes irrational, immature, and frankly, unacceptable. I agree with a large portion of this, and I have been saying for a while that hip hop is just everything that embodies anyone of its aspects. Good or bad, its all hip hop.|||i dont think it should be an arguement between real and fake because when people say real now days they are always refering to real as in street and ghetto life... its intelligence v.s. the ignorant...i dont hate these artist i hate the fans of hip-hop who claim to know so dam much after hearing lil wayne and kayne's albums and the people who just heard r.a. the rugged man and are having wet dreams about how cool they will be.... those people usually crumble under truth
fcuk ignorance!
just because u dont have a computer or a tv or money for that matter doesnt mean u will be in the dark either...
people who truly love and thrive off of hip-hop will go to the library every day to use the free internet and listen to album after album...
these people who wrote this are just ranting and trying to justify listening to lil wayne and still be respected by the hip-hop heads
but that article was very intresting! ive never heard it from that point of view... i say hip-hop = intelligence and soulja boi is keeping my peers and friends in the dark|||Truth is I can say what I want about Soulja Boy and this man can say what he wants about me. Perception is the name of the game and I PERCEIVE that Soulja Boy is crap and he perceives that I am trying to be a know it all. Anyone who has listened to hip hop even HALF as long as I have can see the difference between Pop music and Hip Hop music.
What Bonnie said is true. No one is willing to open their minds to a difference in opinion, maybe partly because they are afraid to be perceived by others as a dork, but mostly because everyone wants to think they are right all the time. Close minded people run the game.|||Yeah I read the article, I remember you mentioned it a long time ago, and I read it back then. So here's the deal with the article:
I sort of both agree and disagree with it. I agree that elitism is stupid (especially in a genre like rap which any real elitist dismisses as garbage all together). I can't describe how stupid some people are who only will listen to music based on how much "talent" it takes and not based on how good it sounds.
That being said, another part of me disagrees with the article entirely, mainly for the examples he is using. Let's be real here. Soulja Boy does suck. People (at least me) are not saying that Soulja Boy sucks for some arbitrary reason like that he doesn't use multi's, or that he isn't lyrical or whatever. We say Soulja Boy sucks because HIS MUSIC DOESN'T F*CKING SOUND GOOD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! It's that simple. Soulja Boy's songs aren't even catchy, they don't make me nod my head, they don't make me want to dance, they offer nothing in the way of enjoyment for me. So why should I pretend to like cr@ppy music just to prove I'm not an elitist? If you want to like Soulja Boy, then that's ok, but I really have a problem with all these people who are just pretending to like him because either
A. They don't actually like him, but they don't want to be called an elitist so they peddle this semi-tolerant bullsh*t.
or even worse than that
B. They are only listening to him because he's "in" right now. They don't actually like his music, yet they will support him over artists who are actually good so that they can fit in.
So that's my take on the article, and realistically someone who makes the type of music that the guy who wrote the article does, doesn't strike me as someone who just genuinely likes Soulja Boy. He strikes me as someone who falls into category A. which I just described above.
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